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Crusader image in Lithuanian culture
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Lutz Szemkus
Posted 2004-05-27 15:55 (#11390 - in reply to #11365)
Subject: RE: Die neue Rassendebatte?


5005005010105
Vors - 2004-05-27 10:02 AM

Do I read this correctly? Prussians, Sudovians (they are also considered Prussians BTW) and Curonians (who ought to be called Prussian-Latvians) are branches of Lithuanians? 


Since when sudovians and curonians became prussians? Sudovians were yotvingians - extinct for now. If you are interested to know who are lithuanians, so, since medieval there is a tradition to treat aukstaitians, samogitians and yotvingians as lithuanians. Curonians definitely are not prussians. Why not Livono-Latvians? Or Slavo-Livonians? :sm37: 

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When East-Prussians talk about "Kuren" /Curonians they mean the population along the coast (Kurische Nehrung/Curonian Spit, Nidden, Schwarzort...) that immigrated there from Latvia around 1400. Most of them were lithuanianised. The last speakers of that language are in their eighties. You can do a google search on Richard Pietsch "Der letzte Mensch, der kurisch spricht." Old Curonian, however, is a Baltic language in its own right and extinct.
Sudovians were by no means Lithuanians, most linguists would say that they were one of the Prussian tribes.

About 2000 Sudovians were relocated by the Order in the Samland (among them their leader Skumand/Skomantas who adopted baptism and from then on fought against the Lithuanians, his family, free nobles and landowners, can be traced in the records for some time, his son Dietrich Skumand is the founder of a village, but it's not the Skumandkehmen which we would expect but Dietrichsdorf, mark how quickly this assimilation happened! ). And now listen to this:

We are in the year 1545, Prussia is the first Protestant state, the church service, sermons etc must be conducted in the mother tongues of the people.(This is when Mosvid writes the first book in Lithuanian.) A catechism in Prussian/German is published. There is a foreword. And what do we read?

"Die Sudawen aber, wiewol ihre rede etwas nydriger, wissen sich doch in diese preussnische sprach: wie sie alhie im Catechismo gedruckt ist: auch wol zuschicken un vernemen alle wort."

About 300 years after their uprising Sudovians are still there as subjects of Duke Albrecht and speak their language which is close to the Samland dialect in which this catechism was written!!

Lutz Szemkus
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