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Random quote: "Mes, lietuviai, esam mįslinga tauta. Mes vis dar savo dvasioje tebesiblaškom tarp buvusių valdovų imperinės pilies ant Gedimino kalno ir susmegusios į žemę vargdienio lūšnos, vis dar nedrįsdami praverti langų ir mesti drąsų žvilgsnį į Lietuvos rytojaus viziją." Vytautas Alantas (1902 - 1990)
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Gudai-Lithuanians south of the Nemunas

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Lutz Szemkus
Posted 2006-01-14 17:37 (#32524 - in reply to #32496)
Subject: RE:

QUOTE]mantas - 2006-01-14 11:11 AM

Hi Lutz,

Thanx for funny posts - it does keep me smiling each time I see your discoveries I'm sorry I have little time for you, but it's weekend so hold on

This time, I suppose you do need small help in using dictionaries. Let me help you with the dictionary entry you have just posted:

Littauer, der, Lietuvninkas. bei Memel: būras (Bauer). ein L. as russisch Littauen, Žemaitis. ein L. asu poln. Littauen, Gudas. 

So, F. Kurschat is one lying son of a b****: he claims that Lithuanians (Lietuvninkai) consist of three parts - būrai, žemaičiai and gudai; damn Kurschat tells that Būras, Gudas and Žemaitis are the same Lietuvninkas (!) More over, he also hints you how to tell one Lietuvninkas subtype from another: it depends on The Political Map ! Man, how could our beloved Kurschat do this you ?


Littauen, das, Lietuwa. das russische Litauen, zemaicziai, zemaicziu zemė. 

That's the second worst insult that you, Lutz, could ever imagine. F***** Kurschat (Friedrich Kurschat) is trying to tell, THERE IS ONLY ONE LITHUANIA for both Būrai and Gudai ! Damn agent of Tomas Baranauskas this Kurschat, I knew it! Luckily, there's a note: Lietuva under tzar regime is also known as Žemaičių Žemė. BUT NO SEPARATE TERM FOR GUDAI-LIETUVA AND BŪRAI-LIETUVA, it must be THE SAME LITTAUEN!

I'm truly impressed he was allowed to print a book with such obvious disloyalties.

"Rusische Littauern" and "poln. Littauern" are just as Lietuvninkai as ourselves ("Memel Littauern").
Friedrich Kurschat, 1870.

After all these long years of loyalist propoganda, after all these long years of Germanisation, after so many Lithuanians assimilated - they still repeat the same heresy: "in general, there's one Lietuwa, there are the same Lietuvninkai despite what empires divided us".

I see you are still publicly kicking your own butt as intensively as ever Fullmoon, huh ?

Lutz Szemkus - 2006-01-06 8:26 PM
They knew only one "Lithuanian", Lietuwininkas, the term that they used for themselves.

I'll try to explain again, so that even loud-mouthed schnooks can understand:

Kurschat has written down his Prussian-Lithuanian vocabulary for practical use in Prussia . Schmalstieg in a Lituanus article sees this as a disadvantage, I don't:


"The best and most important dictionary in Lithuania Minor was compiled by the greatest linguist of his age Fridrichas Kuršaitis (Friedrich Kurschat). The first volume of his Wörterbuch der litauischen Sprache (German-Lithuanian) came out in two parts: A-K, 724 pages, in 1870; L-Z, 393 pages, in 1874. In 1883 Kuršaitis finally published the second volume of his dictionary (Littauisch-deutsches Wörterbuch), 530 pages. This dictionary was well constructed, according to the lexicographic standards of the time. Its Lithuanian part is provided with accent marks which also indicate the type of intonation of the stressed syllable. Its great shortcoming is the fact that Kuršaitis basically used only the Lithuanian language (and literature) of Lithuania Minor.[BIG However, linguists continued to rely on this dictionary until recently. Kuršaitis' nephew, Aleksandras Kuršaitis (Alexander Kurschat) prepared a new and greatly expanded edition of the Lithuanian-German part. This dictionary is published in four large volumes, as: Litauisch-deutsches Wörterbuch: Thesaurus Linguae Lituanicae. (Vandenoeck & Ruprecht, Göttingen)."

So it's easy to understand:

A "Litauer" of Prussia is called LIETUVINKAS (the dictionary was used in the Lithuanian Seminar in Königsberg, the target group were Germans, the Lithuanians that they would come into contact with were those of Prussia only), little exception: a "Litauer" in the Memelland calls himself/ is called? BURAS.

And then, listen well , somebody in the seminar would have asked this question "Auf der anderen Seite der Grenze spricht man doch auch Litauisch, wie nennt man in Preußen diese Leute?" Answer Kurschat: "We Prussian-Lithuanians call Polish-Lithuanians GUDAI, we call a Lithuanian in Samogitia ZEMAITIS."

I have posted a page from his grammar somewhere, where he goes more into detail about who calls who what. Kurschat BTW tries to play this Gudas use (politically correct?) down, because he realizes it must be felt as an insult.
Baranauskas wanted evidence of the (derogatory) use of "gudas" in the days of Donelaitis, so I posted a quote from a pastor Zippel in Nibudszen (round 1800), but he didn't react.

Lutz Szemkus

Edited by Lutz Szemkus 2006-01-14 17:45
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