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Posted 2008-12-30 16:13 (#56783 - in reply to #56780)
Subject: RE: introduction


Posts: 79
minde - 2008-12-30 12:24 PM

Herkus - 2008-12-29 9:22 PM
First of all there is no need to have newly made turkish state inside of Germany.
And the fact that the prussian lithuanians claimed an own state in 1918 is new to me

Sorry about misunderstanding. I told neighboring turkish state. In case, if such did not existed before at all. Like position of prussian-lithuanians to rebirth/creation of neighboring Republic of Lithuania in 1918. The fact, that they did not claim a separate prussian-lithuanian state is a sign namely of non-existence of some very individual prussian-lithuanian identity. They chose only between two of them – either german identity (well, multinational-prussian perhaps) or lithuanian, starting to support a new-born state. 

ok, sorry, my mistake then. Now I understand your question better. Hmm, difficult to answer if they would rejoin a new turkish (neigboring) state. I depends of what is more important to a person: economic stability, more or less good and rich life for the own family and children, but feeling always "different" from the majority (at least for the 1.-2. Generation) and loosing the own origins, or joining the people with the same language, taking in account a poorer and harder life, but also feeling different from the others because the life in Germany already changed them in their views and values. To exaggerate a bit, I guess for a rational thinking human, values like "comfort, food, freedom" are more important than idealistic values like "nation, honour, blood"

Feelings of multinational minorities are really quite interesting. What do american or russian jews feel about arising of Israeli state? You mentioned about two-passport citizens of Germany. There are american-lithuanians having two passports as well – US and lithuanian. I wonder, how it could be ever possible at all. Is it not related to some kind of an oath? How it is possible to take an oath to two of states? Well, the big dream and goal of us all is to get global passports of citizens of the Earth, but at the moment there are still some different states, at least three different ideologies existing and everyone should choose, which one to belong. Especially in early period of forming of national states. 

I think feeling "multi-national" is only a temporary state of mind. Perhabs 1 or 2 Generations have that feelings, then when once the decision was made for one state or nationality, the integration in that state will make them full members of the society in the next generations. But another aspect is religion. Even if the language and culture has changed, the religious confession stays normally and also gives some kind of "higher" common identity. But at least in christian comunities the value of religion looses impact. In Germany there we have protestants and catholics but it was almost unthinkable that 2 people with different confessions could marry. Especially for the catholics. But now this is no big problem anymore.

What were your personal feelings, concerning your lithuanian ancestry, about events in 1991, when sovereignty of Lithuania was restored? Were you in sympathy, indifferent or in antipathy?  

In 1991 I wasn't aware yet of my lithuanian ancestors, but I already were in sympathy with all the baltic nations, that released themselves from the sovietunion. I already knew that they had an own history and nationality before and that they were surpressed. I "explored" my lithuanian ancestors just through research, in my family it was not known that some of our ancestors were prussian-lithuanian. I guess the assimilation in this family was very early. As many eastprussians (at least all the second sons and daughters) left eastprussia with the beginning of industrialism around 1900 and went to the industrial regions of West-Germany (Ruhrgebiet) were many workers were needed for the coal mines and Industry. So did my ancestors, they went there and soon forgot their origins. Only some family recepts in the kitchen survived I think. Because Bortsch and Piroggen (Borszcz and Pirogi in polish, I think) are very traditional in our family. But since then my interest in lithuanian history and culture grew more and more, and I hope sometime I will visit all this regions, were my family comes from. But I feel myself completely german, but with lithuanian origins, so I am feeling more "european"
There is also no "pure" german nation. Germans have lots of origins. Many have slavic origins, but also roman, celtic and germanic roots. The same is valid for almost all other west european nations which all have roman, celtic and germanic origins.

"What do these dumb separatists do, let join to the Germany" (what we actually did later by joining to the EU). 

Hehe, this a common view in East- Europe ? Well, the EU has advantages and disadvantages, of course. But I think the time of national totally indepenedent states is over. With the "globalisation" and networked industry and multi-national companies it is impossible to survive completely independent. But history is the history of mixing and adaptions of ethnic groups. Because only with cooperations and adaptions one will survive. Everything else leads to isolation and death. (wow, I get philosphically here, sorry )
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