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Settlement map of the wilderness (15th-17th cent.)

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Arūnas Armonas
Posted 2011-05-30 14:52 (#84600 - in reply to #84533)
Subject: RE: Historic rubbish from TB

Elite Veteran

Posts: 1041
incognito - 2011-05-27 14:04

Nonsence. Do you, Arūnas Armonas, know better? Don't be silly. On the map is stamped © VU KC - Vilniaus universiteto Kartografijos centras (Vilnius University Cartographic Center). Who knows better you or Vilnius University?
I admit, that even specialists can make mistakes, but comparing with you the man from VU who drove this map is genius. While watching your acitivity in the forum I doubt that you even understand yourself what you are writing... You head is full of pseudohistorical ideas like: Goths, Yatvingians were Lithuanians... :sm13: 

What about sources?

You can easily found on Google newest works of polish archeologists denying gothic migration fron Sweden or anywhere else. Names of many gothic kings are absolutely lithuanian. You can also find these names in Trautman's list of old prussian names :

Tėvute Rikis
Tėvutaats (Tėvutaitis)
Rikis Svints
and so on.

Returning to our subject. According to sources Menduo, Menduks or Mendulis (wrongly restored as Mindaugas) lived in Prussia was baptized here in 1251 and was recognized by pope as king of Lithuania and all the lands conquered by Teutonic Order. (read Papal bull 17 jul 1251 ) The king donated some land of his kingdom to order. In 1260 began war between kingdom of Lithuania and order. Firs time limes between Lithuania and order was established just in in 1420.

How could king of Lithuania live outside of Lithuania?
How could king of Lithuania donate lands not belonging to his kingdom?

Instead of reading sources as they are wrtten historians with university degree ignore them and speculate about  "initial Lithuania":

Įdomu, kad lenkų šaltiniai („Didžiosios Lenkijos kronika“) šiuo laikotarpiu neretai painioja prūsus ir lietuvius. Gali, pavyzdžiui, Mindaugą pavadinti prūsų karaliumi, o 1261 m. prūsų laimėto Pokarvių mūšio aprašyme mini ne prūsus, bet lietuvius. Iš esmės visa sukilimo zona ir sukilėliai yra pasirengę įeiti arba jau yra įsijungę į bendrą Lietuvos kaip paskutinės ginančios instancijos sistemą. Tai irgi patvirtintų, kad pirmuoju sukilimo etapu vadovybė buvo Lietuvoje.

Who is confusigng, historian living in 21th century or contemporary sources? Sources directly write that prussians obeyed to king of Lithuania and that Menduo was of prussian birth. There is no conflict of undetstanding.

The center of Lithuanian kingdom was in Prussia since ancient times until 1260. This simple fact our historians are stil not capable to understand. Here lived richest and noblest families. From these families kings were appointed.

In the east along rutenian ducities were concentrated just settlements of laeti to plunder them and to defend own land. Thus maybe this land was named as Lithuania in Lithuania. This confused historians to look for "initial Lithuania".

Edited by Arūnas Armonas 2011-05-30 17:35
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